Curmudgeon's Corner

Another school referendum in November should not be a suprise to anyone! I said this would happen months ago and I was told on this very blog that I shouldn't assume that would happen they were only polling the taxpayers.... Whatever! This School board will not take no for an answer. The are going to ask the Gtown taxpayers as many times as it takes to get the answer they want and now not only are they going to ask for the money for an new school but they are going to have the nerve to ask for additional funds on top of that! I guess I shouldn't be suprised! I wish they would have put as much effort into leaving the MATC district as they are putting into trying to dig into our pockets! Maybe if they didi they would have an easier time getting what they want! I once again will make sure to voice my opposition and make sure all my neighbors do as well!

The other reason this does not suprise me is that the PTA is pushing this as well. They had a meeting Monday about and I quote "making sure this referendum makes it to the ballot and passes".

The failed referendum didn't solve their space problems, and there's no other feasible solutions.  You can only put so many kids in a hallway I guess.

Yes and it will higher dollar amount as well - just to teach us a lesson about not listening to the school board the first time.

No exploration of alternatives - just jam it through again.

This one is going to down in flames. People are not going to be happy that they didn't even pretend to look at something else when they were told "no" the first time. Higher turnout will result in even a wider margin of defeat!

I hope you are correct Taxed, but I but in my gut I have a bad feeling that some will just throw up their arms and agree out of frustration.

I do agree with your point about teaching us a lesson. I am sure they will try to ask for enough to makes us feel it. The School board should really try to show they have explored other options before trying to jam this down our throats again!

Also it is nice to see that the board has a nice big budget deficit, maybe they should learn how to work within a tight budget before asking for more money from people trying to live within an enven tighter budget

Well, both our boards keep looking to the taxpayer for money they run short on!!!

A village board, who has made promises to a police department for years, and continues to knock them down, but when the Seniors need to build, we jump in and build - no referendum, just taxpayers money.  They took roads out of the budget years ago and lost any federal or state help, now they want to pass it on to our taxpayers.  Think when acting!!!

School Board, well, I have followed, and I am confused that they continue to cut educational positions, and not other positions.  When letting go works, lets let go of aides - sometimes, they are the backbone to the class, they are the strength for a child in need.  Why they didn't look into the cleaning service years ago, it's amazing!!!  Why not look into each job, and see who truly gets their job done, and who doesn't!!  Some things are being run so shabby, and because they are buddies, or they are in a union, we don't take any action - it is time to take action!!! We work so hard on beauty outside some buildings, but not repair inside.  

Now, a new school would be the answer for the overcrowding, which I would support!!!  Would you then maintain this building, and make sure we don't move money from roof work, to something else, because you've run short?  Hire staff that are going to work and make a difference, and don't allow their files to get over a mile thick before you look to let them go!!!

Also, now you're thinking of charging Park and Recreation for usage of the buildings - wow!!!  I know you've talked about it for years, but now you are actually to the point.  What does our schools offer youth without the Park and REcreation???  We have no pool, no theater, no bowling alley, nothing really for youth to do, so they have tried to provide opportunity to keep our youth active and busy!!!  Think about it, we continue to hire people to handle the kids - police liaison, two vice principals, all to handle youth control, but if we start charging more to Park and Recreation, don't you think families will run into more problems!!! Families who can't afford to send their kids to events and again the taxpayer is paying!!!

I watch other school districts, who work with PTA, youth organizations, and outside services, welcome the projects they offer, host speakers, have 5th quarters after sports events, dances, and our schools, don't want others in, because they have it handled - how do we have it handled, if we continue to have expulsions, suspensions, and should be suspended or expelled.  Open you eyes - let groups in who want to work with you and who want to help!!!  I attend things in other communities because of this!!

well as long as we have a current member of the school board here let me ask a couple of pertinant questions.

1)What other alternitaves were explored by the board and why were they dismissed?

2) Has the board looked into how much the road improvents cost that will be needed and where will the money come from that will be needed?How much additional are those costs to the taxpayers?

3) Has the board asked the design firm to modify the plans that were shown to the public to try and reduce the costs to build the school that was proposed?

4) How much additional money will be needed long term to maintain the new building? ie. janitorial staff, maintenance & utilities of the building. Where will this money come from?

5)How much additional money will be needed for the staff include the cost of benifets as well. I understand that some teachers will transfer from other schools but there will not be enough to staff the whole school.there will be a need for another Principal, ect. Where will this additional money come from?

6)Why is it necessary to build the school at the Donges Bay location?

I understand the it is already owned by the village but why not build further north where obviously more building of residential homes will take place in the future. Sell the Donges Bay property to aquire other land.

I have had two kids go through the elementary recently and I never once saw kids being taught in the hallways when I would have to go into their school. Not once have I felt that they we getting less of an education because of the "overcrowding" that has been talked about. Germantown is pretty spoiled to have the teacher to student ratio they have. I have lived in community's that have had much higher ratios.

Nobody said,the original decision to go to referendum was made due to "arrogance". I felt that a couple of the board members I spoke to were very arrogant with their answers as other have.

I think though that this decision will be looked at as that. Pure arrogance. Especally because it sounds like the board will be asking for substantually more.

I think the board will have an uphill battle on there hands to get the taxpayers convinced to pass this without showing they have tried to cu construction costs.

Also what will the board do if the referendum fails to pass again??

Well, the scare tactic is working. School district parents are emailing each other en masse. The message: Vote "yes" on the November school referendum or lose the all-day kindergarten option next year. (One step forward...two steps back.) Given the numbers reported by Ric Erickson in Ty Finke's article, I don't see how anyone wins.

Unfortunately, the ones who are losing out are the children who live is this district. My daughter will be going to kindergarten next year. She missed the cut off by 12 days so she will be one of the oldest in her class when she gets there. Now it doesn't even look like she will have the option of going all day.

Get a grip. This is the same scare tactics these school boards use when they are trying to jam something down the voters throats.

Remember the one a few years ago when they said they were going to eliminate all sports in Racine unless they were allowed to go over the QEO? Come on - use your brain. They are not going to eliminate all day kindergarden. Can you image the uproar if they actually did that?

Taxed to the max- Right now, all day kindergarten is on a lottery system. Not all the kids go all day. You would probably be correct in them not eliminating it if it was currently available to all students. So, in using my brain, as you so eloquently put it, I can see very easily how they can get decrease a program that is only offered to some of the students.

It is a waste of time talking to a school board kool aid drinker.

Unfortunately, you're right. It's a waste of time to talk to someone who has to resort to personal insults when someone disagrees with his opinion.

Concerned GT Resident, your silence to my very pertinant questions speaks volumes to me and hopefully others!!!

ANd the fact that you are going to ask for additional money to run the school shows how silly it is to even consider building a new school!

I asked the board long ago where the money would come from to run this school and I was told out of the boards operating budget. I am going to call a spade a spade right now, the Germantown School board are a bunch of LIARS! And after reading what they are thinking about asking for I wil not ever vote yes to this referendum and I will encourage anyone I talk to in this community to do the same!

It is clear to me that everyone on this board needs to be given the boot!

GTT,

I can no longer just observe, and maybe, I can bring some answers to your questions.

"a bunch of LIARS"?  That's a little harsh.

With the April referendum the plan actually was to absorb the increased operating costs out of the DISTRICT's operating budget.  Unfortunately, the numbers we were given 7 months ago, budget-wise, have changed.  I have no idea what will actually happen next monday, as the Administration just posted the agenda today, and I hadn't even seen it until now.  Keep in mind that the items on the agenda are what's been proposed by the Administration.

Regarding some of your questions I noticed above:

Alternatives. Options considered by the Board include the following: additions to existing schools, add 2nd floor to newer portion of KMS and move 5th grade there, bring in portable classrooms at some schools, etc.  In order to keep this somewhat short I'm not going to get into the details of why the Board didn't choose each of those options, but if you have a question about any in particular ones, I'll respond later.

If there is another referendum placed on the ballot, I expect that the design and size of the school will be scaled down somewhat from the original plan, however, the architects informed the District several weeks ago that construction costs have increased by more than 10% since last Spring.  So any downsizing may not be noticed by comparing the amounts.

Personally, I'm not thrilled with granting what I call a "do over" on the referendum, however, last Spring's outcome did not solve the problem.  Without additional space, the District has no choice but to eliminate all-day kindergarten (which currently is NOT available to all who want it), and increase class sizes.

Regarding the Donges Bay location, the idea was to build where the kids are.  Keep in mind that County Line school enrollment is currently in excess of capacity, as is Amy Belle.  Those neighborhoods between Hwy 45 and Division Road, such as Lone Oaks, have their students bussed out to Amy Belle school, although they're close enough to walk to County Line.  Building at the Donges Bay location would take signicant pressure off of County Line and allow those students referred to above to move from Amy Belle.  A new school at the Donges Bay location would also draw off of the surrounding neighborhoods to the north, such as Heritage Hills and the Preserve, thereby relieving the pressure at MaCarthur.  The amount saved on transportation costs would be significant.  If the District builds way north, then we'll have to bus the students out there, which is expensive.

You asked how much would have to be borrowed for operating costs.  I don't know, as the Administration was supposed to be working on an estimate this week.  I see that they've added to the agenda a question to exceed the revenue limits by $750K per year.  I haven't seen it though, so at this point I don't know.

One way or another, the District will have to find a solution to the space problem.  It is real and doesn't appear to be going away anytime soon.  In fact at our most recent meeting we noticed that the elementary enrollment figures are continuing to go up.

I can assure you that I'm sure not interested in building an additional school for no reason, and I certainly have no desire for higher taxes.  My desire is to be able to find a way to deliver a quality education to all students in the Germantown School District.

I apologize for not addressing all of your concerns here, but its getting late and I'll try again this weekend.

What stands out to me from Mr. Magill's comments above is "You asked how much would have to be borrowed for operating costs.  I don't know, as the Administration was supposed to be working on an estimate this week."  OK, but wasn't the referendum first on the ballot back in April?  Why are they first estimating costs now?  That is my main concern -- it seems that no one has done the homework on what this new school would really mean.  It seems like a knee-jerk reaction.  "We have a space problem, we have this piece of land, lets slap a school on it and see what happens."

GTownie

No, I clearly indicated that with the April referendum the plan clearly was to pay for any incremental operating costs within the operating budget.

I went on to say that the budget numbers we were given by the Administration at that time no longer apply.  They're not just for the first time estimating costs now, as you indicate on your response.  The estimate they were working on this week was to look at a possible qusetion for operating costs on a November referendum.

I will try to respond to any concerns you or others may have.  Maybe some of my colleagues (who I know read this blog) will chime in also.  It seems that one of the biggest hurdles the School District has faced is getting the information out.  There's only so much you can do.  With the April referendum there were at least three mailings sent out to everyone in the District, yet even at our most recent meeting somebody came and said that they knew nothing about the April referendum.  The local media is rarely in attendance at the meetings, so the coverage is somewhat lacking.  As a Board member, I can't advocate one way or another regarding referendum items.  I will try my best to get you the information or answers you need.

Dave,

I know it has always been said that incremental expenses will be paid out of the operating budget, but I think the taxpayers want some detail on exactly how that will be done.  For example, maybe the utilities at the new school will be paid for by cutting a special ed. aide at County Line.  Maybe the principal and secretary will be paid for by dropping all foreign language from the district.  Or whatever the case may be.  With this type of information taxpayers can evaluate whether this really will have an overall positive impact on the quality of education in the district.  I don't think there is currently a lot of fat in the budget (kudos to the Board), and unfortunately that makes it hard to offset incremental expenses.

One other thought regarding Dave's last comment on the difficulty in getting information out -- maybe someone should publicize the fact thatt this blog exists and contains questions/answers from school board members (with Al's permission of course).  Or the school board could create a separate interactive site.  More two way communication is needed, and an web-based solution seems ideal.

Hopefully those details are provided to the Board by the Administration.  I know there would be no desire to drop programs.

The convoluted manner in which the State of Wisconsin finances public education leads to a lot of confusion and mistrust.  Their formula considers us to be a "rich" District, based on property values, and basically "fines" us by reducing our State Aid.  The notion that this School Board is oblivious to tax rates is disappointing, because the reality is that our 2008 tax rate is 7.3% lower than it was in 2004, while the Village of Germantown has increased by 8% over the same period.

While we both agree that its difficult to get accurate information out, this very website has a headline that is 100% incorrectly stating that the District intends to pursue a K4 Referendum.  The School Board has never, ever, considered starting a K4 program.  In fact, the only time its been mentioned at a meeting was to state that "we're not considering it".  Hopefully, that headline will get revised soon, as it demonstrates an example of how rumors and mistrust can start.

In reading all the comments provided in this blog, it certainly points to the fact that the referendum (whether or not it is presented to the voters again) is a volatile issue.  What this blog clearly points out that all of us need to be informed on the issues so that we can make a clear decision if the referendum is presented again.  It also points out that we all need to make our opinions count, by actually voting.

So whether or not you agree with the referendum - all of us need to become better informed on the reasons, issues, and costs surrounding this decision.  How do we do that?  Attend Board meetings, communicate with the Board members, visit a school during regular school hours, access the information provided and available on the School District - become a more well-informed citizen of Germantown by seeking out information.  

It disappoints me that some have resorted to name calling - I urge that person to respect opinions of others, investigage the facts, share it with colleagues and other community members, and support your opinion in a way that doesn't degrade others.

Yes - this is an important issue - one that we all need to weigh in on so that our School Board members can steer this community down the path that the community desires.  While some will win and some will lose during this decision - I urge all Germantown citizens to "step up to the challenge" of really finding out what the situation is in our elementary schools, really finding out what the short and long term affects of any decision in regards to the referendum will be and then make an informed decision in November if the referendum is presented again.

After all this - should I share my opinion?  Yes - because we all have the right to express our opinions in a respectful manner to all.  Yes - I would support the referendum even though my child will not benefit from a new elementary school, in any manner - by either attending the new school or benefitting from a decreased school population in the school we attend.  However, from my perspective we need to be concerned about educating the generation that will support a growing aging population in the future, a generation that will have to survive in a more complex global economy, and I want the property value of my house to increase or maintain it's current level as I now am beginning to enter the time of my life when my income is a little more fixed.  The way in which our children are educated and the tools which they use are much different from when I went to school.  And as we all know, costs rarely decrease and maintaining a high level of education is not going to be easy.  But we need to do what we can, to make an informed decision on this issue no matter what side you are on.  I urge everyone to do that now!  

A tale of two Boards:

The Germantown Village Board finds itself in need of money for road repairs.  Whether or not they spent the previously-earmarked money wisely by doing things like underwriting private sewer extenstions, building high-class offices and a meeting hall after the voters said no, pouring un-recoverable millions of taxpayer dollars into productive farmland and producing an empty industrial park, or the patronage purchase of vehicles is beside the point.  They are faced with the simple question:  do we ask the taxpayers whether we should increase their taxes again/more to pay for this or take the money which otherwise is used to benefit them, or shall we just take it?  To a man, they all said "We should not ask them what to do, we'll just take it away from other things which benefit them."  (My favorite part was when they said "we could just borrow it, that way it doesn't show up on the taxes."  Say what?)

Now we have the Germantown School Board with a different discussion on their plate, which is an idea proposed not by the Board, but by their staff.  Bureaucrats, as we all know, like a simple life which is generally devoid of decision-making.  The School Board is going to be debating and deciding (it hasn't happened yet, folks!) a question similar to that posed to the Village Board:  do we trust our people to decide for themselves whether it is better to pay the operating costs for their new school with a tax hike and not cut anything else, or would they rather pay the expenses from within the regular taxes and make sacrifices elsewhere?  

I guess I like being treated courteously and respectfully, and asked to weigh in for myself.  If the majority says "no new taxes", then both Boards are back to where they probably want to be.  And by the way, talking in terms of dropping 8% or raising 8% is one thing, but when it's put in terms of dollars, that Village 8% rate hike is equal to 12% when it's compared to school tax dollars, since the Village tax rate has risen to be 2/3 of the school tax rate in that same 4 year period.

By the way, Dave Magill:  isn't it true that having enough school space to offer fullday kindergarden for everyone will boost the state aid to Germantown to such a level that our tax cuts increase by millions of dollars each year?

Recalcitrant,

In response to the question posed in your last paragraph:  

As mystifying as it sounds, the answer is absolutely yes.

I agree with CJP's statement, that all of us need to become more informed, and it seems that people did not think the mailings were sufficient the first time around for this referendum.  I have committed myself for the next 7 weeks to pull together a group of citizens who feel this is an important issue, with the goal of informing all of our residents about the facts regarding this issue.  I personally believe if we all have the data that is available about this issue that most of us will come to the same conclusion.....that we MUST do something to alleviate the overcrowding in our elementary schools, which are operating at 20% over their designed capacity.  After reading all of the studies myself (they are available on the district's website), I personally am convinced that the most cost effective option is adding a 5th elementary school on the Donges Bay property, which is central to the population concentration of the school district and will greatly reduce bussing costs.  The group we are organizing is committed to informing the community, and we will likely have at least two "community nights" at the library with a short presentation and Q&A session, and possibly a website if we can find someone who will donate their time and skill to putting it together.  If you are interested in helping with this effort, please feel free to email me at sarajim58@sbcglobal.net.  I hope that through this work we can rally our community to come together and suppport our school district, so that we can all take pride in being a competitive school district offering the best education possible to our students.

I agree that overcrowding in the schools today has classrooms (and hallways) bursting at the seams. I have also noticed that the number of preschools in the area have decreased, and the number of children enrolled in preschool classes have decreased slightly in the past three years and more dramatically in the preschools and day care facilities for the ages 3 and under classes.

The Waukesha area school district built beautiful new elementary school within the last five to ten years due to their surge in population growth. This year they've had to close schools due to low enrollments. This is a very real possibility (if a new school is built) for Germantown that I haven't seen addressed.

In terms of making sure we're all informed about the referendum this time around, I hope everyone gets the chance to hear the comment from a Building Committee member that I heard at an informational session held last spring. There is a much scaled back version of a new elementary school (practical without the fancy roof, gym/lunchroom/stage, extra classrooms, etc.) that the public will never see. It certainly made me think twice about $16.5 million.

Concerned Parent,

If there actually is a scaled back version of a new school, it must be pretty secret, because as a Building Committee member myself, I haven't seen it.

Dave,

Liars is not too harsh, just polite enough! What I really feel about how the board is dealing with the issue I cannot put into print on this site! So you pick the term that you want to use! Liar, Inept, unqualified, pathetic! Whatever you want to call it is fine with me as all of the above descriptions describes the germantown school board members!!!

The fact is I asked board members face to face during the spring open house about where the money will come from to run this new school you want to build and i was told to my face there would be enough money in the operating budget to pay for these expenses. The fact is that is completely false! You still haven't answered my question of where the money will come from for road improvements!!! Let me answer the question for you then... out of the taxpayers pockets in the form of higher taxes! It is obvious that the board has not done enough research to justify building this school at this time.

I also stood and watched my wife ask what happens when you want to start a 4 year old kindergarden program and one of your board members looked us straight in the eyes and said that the 4K program has never been discussed and is nowhere in the near future and now I see it may be up for a referendum!!! You can't even pay for what you have now and you want to add more programs!!!!Please spare me!!!

I cannot even fathom how the board has no idea as to how much the operating costs will be and yet they have no problem asking for MILLIONS of dollars to build a new school! Don't you think that is putting the cart before the horse?? Why didn't the board ask to have the plans scaled back before the first referendum ? It may have had a better chance of passing if the board would have used aa little common sense and showed the taxpayers they trying to really do everything it could to help this community as a whole!

As for you comment "If the District builds way north, then we'll have to bus the students out there, which is expensive." Germantown is not that big, so "way" north is not that far away so don't even beging to tell me how expensive that would be! Would the district save the 22 million it is going to ask for??? The fact is that if you considered building north it would prevent another referendum in a few years for yet another school.

In my eyes this board is unqualified for the positions they are holding at this time!